Counter-Strike: Condition Zero: Deleted Scenes


#121

Very impressive. (EDIT: I’m not sure I enjoy watching RTAs. I really feel your frustration like when the NPCs screw up like at the start of Hankagai. Second hand frustration isn’t really enjoyment, no matter how impressive the rest of the run is.)

For Skyping, I’m Australian and I’ve found that usually makes organising real-time events a challange due to the time difference. But I’ll look into getting a Skype account anyway.

For the Segmented Run, here’s my suggested route for Building Recon. I reckon someone better at general movement and aim (like you DemonStrate) who was willing to dedicate a bit of time to the trickier parts could finish it in less than 6:30 quite easily. Lot’s of little improvements can be made all over, some of which I can think of after just watching my video. But as a general route, this video should include most major tricks and skips I think:


#122

It doesn’t have to be ‘real-time’. It keeps messages in the group and if you aren’t there, when you sign in again, it shows a number of how many messages you haven’t read since the last time you signed it. It works pretty well, actually. In general, it is more active than a forum.

I have a lot to say here about this route:

  • I estimate this mission to take about 3 minutes total in a segmented run.
  • I’m not 100% sold on that nade launch.
    – It is complex to set up (you need to scale the broken building).
    – The technique I use here can be done right away. The reason I wait is the luck manipulation is too much for an RTA run. The setup is simple: break the 2 wooden boards on the left and run along the ledge.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8adNnQoiEk#t=1177
  • The LAW is a great damage boost weapon, and I’d recommend using it for the last 2 boosts you do into the church. The LAW does not require armor to do damage boosts (HE grenade requires armor).
  • For a segmented run, I expect us to do a LAW boost anytime we gain health.
  • You seem to kill an unnecessary amount of people after the ‘big battle’ area.
  • I think that boss strat is ‘okay’, but I think there might be a faster way. I’d have to investigate.
    – An example idea: Jump onto the bomb itself and start diffusing. While diffusing, shoot the boss and kill him.
    – I like the idea of the smoke grenade. Not 100% sold on the flash.
  • I like the use of the LAW to skip the ‘sniper rooftop’ area. I think you could launch almost directly at the bridge (or further) in a segmented run.
  • Keep in mind that a majority of the segmented run will be luck manipulation, so don’t rule out anything.

#123

Looks good.
Not sure about the huge town skip either. Depends how much and fast you’re able to surf compared to DS shorter path.
I agree the LAW is better than HE in most cases. Even with fastswitch-save at HE pickup there isn’t enough time before the boost, so you gotta wait out the delay before explosion. While LAW can be shot at any time and at any height (for scenarios where only horizontal boost is desired.)
I think the boss is good. You don’t have to kill him to finish the mission. Flash and smoke is great for deluding.

The big addition I have is infinite fastfire LAW shooting. Should save a lot on the big battle place. Snipe the lock, then starting the fastfire. It seems you gotta wait til the rockets explode before you save. Else the rocket explodes like a flashbang (but only affecting player?)


#124

I haven’t seen what you are referring to. How do you fastfire it?

  • I’ve added the MapInfo for LAW to the spreadsheet.
  • I investigated where the LAW spawns in cz_brecon03. It seems to be in an area that is inaccessible to the player. There are actually 2 rooms like this. I don’t know how they play into the map (fiber optic camera locations, maybe?).
  • Also, my PB for Building Recon is 7:50 with my route.

This was something I’ve been thinking about recently. If I was to rate the weapons in this game in terms of usefulness, I’d say it would be something like this order:

  1. Deagle - 1 hit HS kill, quick at reloading, fast movement speed
  2. Scout - 1 hit HS kill, highly accurate, fastest movement speed
  3. LAW - Splash damage, infinite ammo, rocket jumping, 1 shot clip, slow movement and reload speed
  4. M60 - 1 hit HS kill, powerful, large ammo clip, slow movement and reload speed
  5. AK - 1 hit HS kill, powerful, medium movement speed
  6. MP5, UMP45, USP - Decent damage, fast reload, fast movement speed, decent accuracy
  7. Pump Shotgun - Good damage, 1 hit kill close range, fast movement speed
  8. M4A1 - Good damage, decent accuracy, medium movement speed
  9. Auto-Shotgun - Okay damage, poor accuracy, fast reload speed, fast movement speed
  10. Everything else - Case-by-case situation in terms of usefulness

#125

Save/load after switching to the LAW, the reload and switch delay have been nullified ready to shoot instantly.
But it seems limited since saving while rockets are in the air converts the rocket to a flashbang. But still very effective on short distances.
Similar to this HL gauss trick.


#126

When I read that, the only think I hear and see are infinite rocket propelled flashbangs. Oh yeah! In the ‘big fight’, just shoot a flashbang at them. Then, kill them. In the area with the snipers, shoot a flashbang and then rocket jump. Basically, I think you just discovered some insane routes based on the ‘rocket propelled flashbang’ bug (RPFB). :slight_smile:


#127

The flash doesn’t seem to affect the NPC’s at all. What I meant was to wait for the rocket to hit and then fastfire again.


#128

[QUOTE]

  • I’m not 100% sold on that nade launch.
    – It is complex to set up (you need to scale the broken building).
    – The technique I use here can be done right away. The reason I wait is the luck manipulation is too much for an RTA run. The setup is simple: break the 2 wooden boards on the left and run along the ledge.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8adNnQoiEk#t=1177[/QUOTE]
    I tried that a few times and kept on getting shot into oblivion, and scaling the broken building is faster than waiting for the airstrike. But I obviously didn’t try enough. You are right, that would be a better route.

[QUOTE]- The LAW is a great damage boost weapon, and I’d recommend using it for the last 2 boosts you do into the church. The LAW does not require armor to do damage boosts (HE grenade requires armor).

  • For a segmented run, I expect us to do a LAW boost anytime we gain health.[/QUOTE]
    I think I’m biased towards HE boosts for some reason, because I always prefer performing them over the LAW jumps. Maybe a left over from conc jumping in TFC. But if LAW jumping is better, certainly go for it.

That was more down to my poor gameplay and time restraints I have for playing. I’d hope we’d be able to finish the big battle on 100 health, and then be able to skip getting the health, which means you can skip killing pretty much everyone there. The part where I pick up the hidden LAW was painfully bad, due to only having 1hp. It will obviously have a huge improvement in an actual run.

[QUOTE]- I think that boss strat is ‘okay’, but I think there might be a faster way. I’d have to investigate.
– An example idea: Jump onto the bomb itself and start diffusing. While diffusing, shoot the boss and kill him.
– I like the idea of the smoke grenade. Not 100% sold on the flash.[/QUOTE]
I think I did succeed getting on top of the bomb, but the sniper would quickly kill me (and the rest of the terrorists can shoot you as well). With a little bit of luck you should be able to LAW -> Smoke Boss -> Deagle sniper though. You can still walk while defusing can’t you? If that’s the case, landing on the bomb and then dropping off behind it should work well.

The flash (and smoke) should only be necessary if we run out of ammo - as we only have the deagle and TMP (is that gun?). However, assuming we get 1deags - which is easily possible in a proper segmented run - we should be able to kill the boss while defusing.

Quadrazid was able to get to the second platform (http://youtu.be/ulywDgTw52g?t=1m39s) In the very last clip I get to the very end of the alley and die to fall damage - a jumpbug there and then some very swift killing would be the fastest possible route in that area. (http://youtu.be/H60-1PNkAuA?t=7m45s)

Wow, I hope so. If you can manage that, this will be one helluva speedrun.


#129
  • The opening of the Building Recon mission takes approx. 1:06 with sub-optimal movement.
    – I think it is possible to complete the rest of the mission within 2 to 2:30 after the opening (hence my 3 minute estimate, which might be a little low).
  • Again, when approaching this speedrun, think HL21. Look at how optimized it is. That’s what I expect for this speedrun. :stuck_out_tongue: The game has a ton of potential. We just need to control the RNG as much as possible.

CZ: Deleted Scenes - cz_brecon04 - Nade Launch:

Just showing off the general concept for the nade launch for the segmented speedrun. NOTE: This is performed VERY badly and would not be this slow in the segmented speedrun. Other notable things:

  • You can shoot the board on the door faster and while running.
    – Breaking the board allows the NPCs to move and provides targets for the mounted turret.
  • The movement of the NPC that blocks my path to the ledge can be optimized.
  • You can wallstafe towards the NPC.
  • The RNG of the turret could be made so that it breaks the 2 required boards to get up to the ledge.
  • You should be quickswitching to the nade as early as possible.
  • Throwing the grenade should be done while jumping up the ledge.
  • You can wallstrafe the ledge to gain very fast movement speed, which would lead to a launch that provides the best horizontal distance.
  • As you can see from the first demo, it was possible to make it up there with 21 HP and 20 armor. I expect us to have this amount or better.

#130

I kinda found a glitch,
if you jump and use a nade, then save load when you hit the ground if you duckroll
you keep any speed you got. So you can do what is basically the CSCZDS equivalent of bhopping


#131

That’s not really new. That’s actually the main purpose of duckroll, to maintain any velocity gained, though I agree it could possibly prove very useful in more open areas.

I’m not sure about the save/load thing though, doesn’t it work without that?


#132

I’ll try to investigate NPC RNG after I finish school. (might be too late then, but oh well) Try to see how they behave under certain conditions. Until then, here is a list of conclusions I have drawn just from playing through the game.

  • Enemies are EXTREMELY aggressive.
  • They want to make Line of Sight so they can shoot you. They will try very hard to achieve LoS.
  • They have a small chance to absorb headshots from 1-hit kill shots.
  • If you and an enemy are separated by another enemy, the furthest one away will NOT fire under any circumstances. (Hypothesis - Not Tested)
  • Scaring them with grenades has not been tested. Currently it seems random wither they will run from it or not.
  • It seems as though they will run through an environmental hazard if you are on the other side and they have acknowledged your existence.
  • Haven’t seen many occasions of it, but it seems there is a small chance they will run away if injured greatly.

You may have known some of this stuff already and in that case, why are you reading it? You already know about it. Head to the next point.


#133

But the farthest one can try to melee you, as proven by OMalley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60-1PNkAuA#t=52

They seem to have a chance of running from grenades. This includes flashes and smokes too. Sometimes, I’ve gone to do a grenade jump, and the enemy is standing on the grenade. He seemed to have prioritized trying to shoot me over living. Lol. In general, I’ve found it is easier to scare them if they haven’t had LoS with you yet.

Edit:

How would we do duckroll without the NGHL version? I could see us saving a ton of time if we combined grenade boosts with duckroll or with edgebug + duckroll. I’m pretty sure your velocity would go to zero if you used jumpbug. :-/


#134

I see that happening for three reasons: 1) Some enemies are naturally tougher than others (like the head terrorist at the end of Downed Pilot) 2) You are shooting through another enemy/wall, and most likely 3) damage fall off exists.

[quote=“DemonStrate, post:133, topic:2327”]

But the farthest one can try to melee you, as proven by OMalley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60-1PNkAuA#t=52[/QUOTE]
What actually happened there, is that the one in the back would not attack me at all until I moved to the side. So my hitbox was still blocking the front one, but there there was a clear path between the back one’s aimpoint and mine. So I think Burgmond is still right. I’m not certain how useful this is though.


#135

We need more damage boosting. Duckroll rules. We need to somehow create a version of NGHL with a different HL engine so we can use it for the run.

I used this level as an example, even though you’d never have a grenade on it. You can get some super awesome speed. Over 800. It would work with anything that gives you horizontal speed (LAW, being shot, kamikaze exploding enemies, etc).

CZ: Deleted Scenes - HE-Duckroll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKEqhalsoSc


#136

I know its not great, but try AHK for duckrolling. Make a simple script and then attempt it. I would make it but I have no idea how. BTW, I think HMGs (the stationary guns) give slight knockback, although its not useful since they knock off massive chunks of health, but its an idea.

EDIT: Brainwave, aren’t the terrorists in CZ DS basically reskins of grunts in HL? They act very similar, except for the running away from grenades part


#137

Tested using AHK in both the Steam version and the NGHL version. It isn’t consistent enough to maintain speed reliably. It basically doesn’t do the consistent 8 ups per doubleduck… because you aren’t doubleducking consistently. I may be able to modify it to try other things, but it definitely has limitations.

One thing I noticed that I found interesting. I was, however, consistently losing more health when I landed the nade launch doing it with AHK vs _special script. Does that mean duckroll somehow reduces fall damage? That would be useful vs needing to do jumpbugs all over the place.


#138

Do you mean without the NGHL version because there won’t be any _special? If that is what you mean, there’s an alternative:

//duckroll
alias +dr1 "alias name duckroll;duckroll"
alias -dr1 "alias name"
alias duckroll "+duck;wait;-duck;cmd name"

It can be found on this page.

As for the fall damage, I’m not sure, but jumpbug definitely would lose all velocity on this game.


#139

So, which version of the game do you suggest we run? It can’t be the version found on Steam, because those scripts won’t work. It can’t be NGHL, because cz_alamo2 doesn’t load. Should we run the original version of the game, which would be compatible with these scripts?

Also, I was able to do jumpbug manually this morning. It was easier to do at 240 fps (I normally use 120). I was practicing it on cz_motor2 (after the first LAW launch). I drop right in front of the entrance to the sewers. I still haven’t figured out the best strategy for health management on that mission, yet. I want to be able to to the second LAW launch without a health detour.


#140

Since duckroll should save a lot of time, then I’d say the original version should be used, or whatever the latest version is that will work with those scripts; I’m not that familiar with the CZDS versions. Are there any sacrifices to be made in using the original version?

Also when deciding what FPS to choose, refer to this page. There’s plenty of stuff there that could be very useful to this run, such as firing rate for example.

Higher fps value makes the scripts run faster. For example, if you run a duck-loop script at 250fps, the script will execute more +duck commands, making you [url=http://wiki.sourceruns.org/wiki/Doubleduck]Doubleduck[/url] more times than with regular fps. The good thing about this, is that you'll be able to keep your speed for longer when [url=http://wiki.sourceruns.org/wiki/Doubleducking#Duckroll]Duckrolling[/url].

Like I said in Skype, the higher the framerate, the easier it is to time jumpbug. Whatever the highest stable FPS amount is you can use, use that for when it comes to recording segments with jumpbugs and other stuff that needs very precise timing.

I think lowering the framerate for NPC manipulation could prove pretty useful in this run too, maybe even more so with enemies. A lot of experimentation will be required to see what the lowest framerate is that can be used whilst being able to move around smoothly.