Timing pauses.


#1

Recently, a new rule has been made that forces runners to time their pause times in In-Game-Time.
That rule have been voted by Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2 Episode One and Half-Life 2 Episode Two runners.
However, the pauses in Episode Two are really rare : Save Deletion & Outland_11 (around 2-3 secs in No Save Deletion).
I recently discovered that when I run offline without a single software open, I can reach 62 average fps.
However, when I run either LiveSplit, either try to local record either try to stream, this is what I get : https://youtu.be/nyZLk64iid4
Since I did a PB with a offline run, now it’s barely impossible to PB with a “slow” game.
If we wanted to be technical, we should consider the “stretch of the time” using this forumla : https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/8/d/08d78b824dffdd2a9259848130dbe771.png
However, this would be stupid to apply that to speedruns and consider the speed that your computer is moving compared to the ground (usually we consider the stretch of the time when v>c/10)
What I wanted to say is that the menuing is really really short and doesn’t matter much.
Ok, I agree that a guy who pauses the game in the middle of the run to get a drink or something is kind of bad.
So I am asking to revote that “rule of timing menuing” only inside EP2 (not HL2) runners because I can’t play at all.


#2

Okay, although I totally agree that timing menus is totally and entirely pointless (this isn’t a middle school typing class, after all, it’s speedrunning a game) I don’t see the big deal. If it’s only a few seconds, why do you care? Plus, you’re asking to change a rule in one game, rather than the entire spectrum of games the rule was applied to, which I don’t see the logic behind, other than the fact that the pauses are rare and short. So I, for one, am against it, unless you can provide sufficient logic to support all of your claims.


#3

Time spent paused is also a part of the speedrun so I fail to see the logic behind not timing pauses. There was some discussion about this and the majority agreed that they should be timed(this was with some people voting no because they thought this would mean manual timing). The only reason people don’t use real time is because of varying loads and the only purpose that the loadless time serves is to even out this hardware difference, extending it to arbitrarily not timing certain parts seems weird.

As for this particularly, I think that this is such an edge case that it shouldn’t be enough to change a rule. I mean let’s be real here, we’re talking about an 8 year old game, you can have a pretty shit pc and still maintain a good framerate while recording. I even asked you about this and you agreed that this shouldn’t be enough to change the rule, so I fail to see why you would even make this thread if you dont even agree with it yourself.

EDIT: Actually just remembered something, Yalter has been working on an in-game timer(which also times pauses) for SPT so I guess that could be useful for you.


#4

“I even asked you about this” True
“agreed that this shouldn’t be enough to change the rule” I said that I respect your opinion, I totally understand it, I just want to play; I wasn’t agreeing on stopping discussions.
“EDIT: Actually just remembered something, Yalter has been working on an in-game timer(which also times pauses) for SPT so I guess that could be useful for you.”
" The only reason people don’t use real time is because of varying loads and the only purpose that the loadless time serves is to even out this hardware difference, extending it to arbitrarily not timing certain parts seems weird." Yes, I understand why loads have important time differences.
Thanks Jukspa
Can we still revote or is it a THAT stupid idea ?


#5

Okay, I don’t see why Jukspa would just blatantly lie, especially if he knew you knew it wasn’t true. I also don’t understand why you would do that either, so it’s a mystery to me

"EDIT: Actually just remembered something, Yalter has been working on an in-game timer(which also times pauses) for SPT so I guess that could be useful for you."

Okay you just outright didn’t respond to this.

You basically just didn’t give any reason behind the revote. Again. Soooo
can you like do that? pls thx


#6

Yalter’s SPT update seems fine for me.
It seems accurate.


#7

In the SR discord PJC said that “You can’t expect people to change a rule because of you having bad hardware” to which he responded “Yes I agree, I’m just asking”, can’t remember what he told me in the steam convo the other day but if that isn’t blatantly agreeing with something then I don’t know what is. I guess it could’ve been a poor choice of words, but I dont see why I’m being put on the chopping block here.

Uhh what?

It would be silly and confusing to have different rules for HL2 and the episodes for no reason.


#8

Hint to my run HL2 where I use the pause command for clearly gaining an advantage. Pausing is benefitial as you can kinda buffer a pause during a loading screen so when the loading screen is finished the game is paused. This means that you avoid the small screen freeze or whatever to call it that comes after every time there is a loading screen (read: after loading screen - game is running but the screen is frozen).

And I see that the pause command could be even more exploited, you could save after every jump in the air so if you did a bad jump you can just load and pause and do it better.

So the pause command is like any other trick in the game and it should be timed - atleast as long as it is used to gain an advantage.


#9

Unfortunately everything you just mentioned is no longer something that can be used because pausing is timed. Luckily I run Portal so I don’t care 8)


#10

Nice. I had a discussion with Pack and the outcome was that he’s gonna time his runs with SPT and submit demos + screenshot of the console output(for the time), so problem solved.


#11

Of course it can still be used and it would still provide an advantage. Incooperating pause in runs can make parts more consistent (at the cost of a little time) and it can also lead to the use of more aggressive saves. I know for certain that pause can be helpful in multiple instances in Portal. It’s just a technique that needs to be more experimented with.

IMO recognizing the potential of the pause command and not even consider to use it would make no sense to me. It may not have a huge benefit but no matter how small it’ll still give an upper edge.


#12

Perhaps that was true before you started timing pauses. could i use a command that says “pause; pause” to do pause glitch in portal and lose no time if they start timing it? Yes, the rule is that multiple commands can be bound to a key, it’s just the wait command that’s banned. That’s why "save ; load " is allowed. So I’m not worried about the tricks involving pause. Plus, if you wanted to you could even bind pause to scroll wheel. At no time would using the pause command to manipulate the game lose time. What I’m worried about is the fact that you won’t be able to pause the game for a bit if something comes up, like if your dog wants in, or if you have to use the restroom really bad (which is especially terrible in Half Life 2, an hour and a half worth of game and no bathroom breaks are allowed.) It would be amazing if Yalter could add something to SPT that would pause the game in a different fashion that wouldn’t count toward demo timing, his in-game timer that counts pause time, wouldn’t allow the player to access the console or anything else, and at the same time refrain from manipulating the game. I’m sure that’s about 0% possible but that’s the only sensible option I can think of.


#13

First off, I apologize for double-posting, I’ve been punished for it in the past but I REALLY want to clear this up:
Jukspa, you misunderstood just about everything I said.
A. Didn’t put you on the “chopping block,” I was saying to PackSciences that it didn’t make sense for jukspa (you) to lie about what he said. I was sorta sticking up for you.
B. As for your “Uhh what” I was, again, talking to packsciences. He quoted this, but didn’t actually mention it. At all.
C. I totally agree with you, that would be absolutely absurd. That’s why I said he didn’t give sufficient reasoning for doing so. What did I say to imply anything else?


#14

Yes, I might have said that poorly, and I apologize about that.
However, I think the topic is closed since posting a screenshot of the SPT new build is allowed for proving menuing, isn’t it ?


#15

This is exactly why pauses must be timed. If not, people will easily abuse this. As soon as the timer is stopped and started again at a later point, it’s no longer a single sitting run. If you’re participating in a lengthy cycling time trial and you need to take a piss, should the timer be stopped whilst you get off your bike and go take one?

Also, S. does GTA:SA 100% runs which last 14 hours without stopping (he plans his breaks beforehand as far as I know), so an hour and a half is hardly excusable. I’ve even heard of runs so long that people have had to sleep in between them and they’re still not stopping the timer.


#16

I once did a run of feed the beast classic (the Minecraft modpack/challenge map) with a good friend of mine, and it took us an entire weekend from Friday at 4 pm to Sunday at like 8pm. And we didn’t stop the timer at all. We had someone playing literally every second of every day till it was done however, so there was no reason for the timer to stop.


#17

I’m not going to argue against any of this, because the only reason I can find is an opinion, so I’ll just share that opinion and be done:
That is absolutely absurd 8)


#18

How can you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously when you won’t/can’t back it up? That’s twice now you’ve resorted to slating a response for no reason, despite your “official apology”. This kind of posting doesn’t contribute anything valuable to the discussion. Spoken to other admins and we’ve decided you’re on your final warning.


#19

Fine, I will back it up.
I think it’s absurd that people do runs where they sleep during it and don’t pause the timer because it can eventually get to the point where they won’t sleep because they want to save time, and that’s unhealthy.
Another thing, I don’t think it’s fair that I’m being treated like this when Fnzzy wrote “I think we should script the whole game because it’s too hard!” I think runners should be treated the same regardless of their skill and status in the community. Don’t get me wrong, I love fnzzy, even though he was arguing against me I did laugh at that. It’s just not fair.


#20

On the other hand, if they do pause the timer it can get to the point where they pause right before a hard trick, go into another instance of the game, practice the said trick, then return to the “speedrun” instance and continue.