Proposal to skip the vault via save (also posted on speedrun.com)


#1

For all the time I’ve played this game, the relaxation vault has been the biggest thorn in my side whenever it came to runs. It’s an unpleasant and unnecessary aspect of the run that continues to be the source of constant frustration. I would like to put an end to this.

My idea is to create a save in which the player stands still during the first 53 seconds of the relaxation vault, make said save publicly available and exclusively allowed (having a community standard save would eliminate potential confusion, cheating, etc.).

The demo associated with the creation of the save would also be public, and would be used for timing purposes for runners that solely use demos to record their runs.

Use of the save would mean adding 53 seconds to your final time (or starting at 53 seconds in the case of livesplit). The run timing would still essentially start at you gaining control.

Use of the save would be completely optional, if you rather set something up during the 53 seconds that would be skipped you would be free to do so, but you would forfeit that opportunity if you decided to use the save.

This would not be applicable anywhere else, no other period of waiting would be potentially skipped as this only works because it is from the start of the game with no inputs.

By introducing this we would have to take into consideration how it would change the way runs are defined. Taken at face value, this would either be an incredibly long RTA run (days, months, or even years depending on how long your run took place after the save was initially made), or a very slow segmented run (POR and PDI would be rough competition to say the least.) Arguably it would become an arbitrary exception to these definitions.

Arbitrary doesn’t matter though, otherwise we would have to call into question the entire basis of the rules. We have decided to allow and bar various commands based on our own perceptions of what would make the most sense for a speedrun (ent_fire, save deletion, toggle_duck, aliases, etc.) We don’t use a simple logical system to define the rules because doing so would make for rules that end a poor user experience.

If we are to assume that the systems we have in place now ultimately exist to benefit the user experience, making an exception for the benefit of the user experience would be the only reasonable course of action.

The decision of whether or not to put this system into place should be made by those who would actively be affected by it. This would include any current runners and any runners that would return upon the implementation of the proposed system. In the interest of objectivity and fairness, all votes should be given equal value.

53 seconds of no inputs is the same whether you experience it or not, personally I would rather not.

//Edit//
Link to the save and demo http://bit.ly/1hniIya >>START AT 53.01<<


#2

I’m so for it. The vault blows.

We could be all bureaucratic about it and argue that it’s part of the game, but when it comes down to it, we play games and speedrun for fun. Sitting around twiddling your dick for a minute every reset is not fun.


#3

Considering that it’s possible to skip the vault I’m against it.


#4

It’s not feasible in real time, it’s restricted to one category, and this only skips the waiting, it doesn’t actually subtract the time of the vault. If skipping the vault were at all feasible this would serve no purpose anyways.


#5

Thumbs up since it makes running the game less cancer and doesn’t subtract the vault time from the run.


#6

Im fine with it as long as the majority is fine with it aka dont just do it, if you want to count me as active runner that is.

However at the same time i really think screenshots as “valid” (lol) proof have to go then.


#7

Even though I don’t run Portal, I think this is a good idea and I support it.

If you want to skip the vault, you can always opt-out from using this save and start from the very beginning, others who start using a save will have 53 seconds added to their run, as simple as that.

But there’s also another thing I wanted to note: Half-Life 1 already (kinda) does this by starting the runs at c1a0 instead of c0a0 to skip the tramride, even though it’s possible to clip out of the tram and move around freely.


#8

I agree with Xeiz. If you want to do it let’s all agree that it should be allowed. As for the “you can speed up the vault/set something up during it” then don’t use the save. For people who don’t set up anything this would be a good solution for anyone who thinks the vault is damaging their sanity.

As for the “it’s technically a segmented run with 2 segments” I agree with that, but I also think that we should maybe make an exception for that.

Also yes. If this gets through split screenshots should no longer be a viable form of proof (as it should have been in the first place!)


#9

And yeah, people could easily fake their saves to look the same but start a little bit later in the vault (closer to the first portal opening or something) to give themselves advantage. To prevent this, demos should be required for such runs so you could time the time taken from the save loading to the first portal opening as it should be pretty much the same amount of ticks for everyone.


#10

Demos being required in general would also prevent the use of autojump, it’s real easy to fake or even not realize you have it on. The demo plugin is so convenient now that there is hardly a reason not to use it.


#11

i also mentioned it in the rules now so it should be more obvious to new people that such a thing exists.


#12

lmao i’m not part of the community really anymore so you don’t have to listen to me but this is dumb.
Do you see people making a save after the 7~ minutes at the start of super mario sunshine?
Do you see people starting after the 5~ minute cutscene in windwaker?
Do you see people starting after first cycle (16~ minutes) in majora’s mask?
This is a just a tiny amount of the many games where just having just a 53 second start would be way easier for all of the runners.
imo if you wanna do this then your run should not be counted with the people who don’t do this, and should be counted instead as a segmented run or something like that, which is also really dumb but whatever.
glhf

(seriously starting a timer at 53 seconds to save some hassle wtf i literally don’t get it)


#13

You know i would actually value that opinion if it had thought behind it. All mentioned games cant do that. If they could you might have the same discussion in those communities, who knows.
As exe mentioned, certain other games with the OPTION to even do stuff like that, already do it.

copied over from a response in the sr portal forum on a similar (yet different / worse case):
edit… too lazy to format it correct lol

“I’d like to take a moment to point out that this would not be the only case of this predicament.Any Banjo-Tooie speedrunner knows how much Jinjo RNG can affect a speedrun. It can cost you minutes depending on the category, all for no reason. What the vast vast majority of runners do is have a permanent backup save file with the desired Jinjo RNG. They copy the save to the speedrun file (slot A) and start timing when selecting the file. Because Jinjo RNG is determined at the very start of the game, the way you do it is as follows. -Start a new file -Immediately quit out to the main menu -Backup the file- -Play through the game until you see what color Jinjos are located in what positions -If incorrect, try again, if correct, keep the backup save -Copy save file to speedrunning slot, play runs from there There’s a whole pastebin on it if I wasn’t clear enough. Anyway, yeah, this totally makes sense. It’s a segmented speedrun, but it’s very very specific segments. In Banjo-Tooie’s case, it’s a 3 second segment followed by the rest of the run in the other segment. In Portal, it would be the very specific vault segment followed by the rest of the run in the other segment. As long as these 2 segments are defined properly, it’s reasonable to implement this change. Make sure to word the rules properly, don’t let there be any loopholes to where people can submit a segmented run with 2 segments split anywhere but at the vault. Yeah, that’s my opinion on it.”


#14

There’s something similar to that to do with where shards spawn in windwaker too, with it being rng decided at the start of the run but still this isn’t really applicable (i mean it is in terms of segmenting) because the relaxation vault is basically an unskippable cutscene and skipping something that is “annoying” is dumb.
but like i said, i’m just here to spread the memes, just play game how you want to play game :slight_smile:


#15

Dont worry i understand, in case of that banjo tooie thing i would be against it too. Thats why i wrote worse case than ours because it actually does affect the outcome of the run.


#16

I’m for it. The only thing on my mind is that, doing this, you would actually have an advantage over someone not doing it. The advantage would be that you’d be able to do more attempts within the same time period and keep a higher average performance. Dunno if it’s something to consider even but yeah, just pointing it out.


#17

As a portal runner that likes fucking around in the starting room, i have no opinion. I figure if you want to use it use it. As long as people stay legit about it it should be fine. and if enough people cheat it it should then be rethought.

Innocent till proven guilty.


#18

I am for it ! But we should add an option on the leaderboard (a bit like rta and ss for legacy) ! Also there is a bigger problem : if someone wr with skipped vault, does the community feel this run like a real wr ?
When i told to jukspa about my 8:51 oob pb with skipped vault and if he feels that run like nocheated he said : no ! So the real question on this thread is how to skip the vault (or not) and still being fair with older runs !


#19

If everyone is allowed to do it, there’s no advantage.


#20

for exemple : if i bop carrot’s oob wr with a skipped vault run is that fair ?