If this would be ever allowed and his time would be retimed. Yes.
edit:(oh, you don’t need to retime anything if you start the timer at 53s)
This. In theory you can still skip it in RTA/SS.
Imagine if Episode 1 run would be timed from the start of the 2nd map since the 1st one is full cutscenes. And then it was found out you can skip like half of the first map. woops.
retimed for what?
So basically hl1? :^) except they actually dont even time the tram i guess.
yes.
I never understood that either.
Just because some oldboi didn’t time his run properly and got it on SDA everyone just accepted it.
Also, in speedruns you should actually play through the portions that you include into the final time. It just makes sense. Even tho I do like the concept of skiping the vault it just feels cheap.
I cant name a SINGLE game where they do this.
I posted this on the speedrun.com thread so im copypasting it here.
I think its dumb that so many people really have a problem with waiting 53seconds at the start of a run… Also if you start the run at 53 seconds, then you’re not really timing once you gain control, youre timing from an arbitrary point in the game just to make resets faster. I understand you can make the argument that the end result is the same either way, but to me that doesn’t justify starting the game from a save instead of from the actual beginning of the game. If part of the game is adding to the total time, then that part of the game should be actually played instead of skipping an arbitrary amount of time and adding it later.
This could also actually have an effect on times, as like BiiWix pointed out people are more likely to get sub2 00/01 even if theyre not at all consistent at doing it since resets become almost instant. In a way this lowers the skill gap between runners since it becomes easier to get.
How long until people want to skip the 4:30 of elevators in the game? Pretty much every pro-vaultskip argument here could also be applied to that, but im sure a lot of people that are for the vault skip would be completely against that, despite the vault being as much a part of the game as the elevators are.
Speedruns should be about going as fast as you can within the constraints of the game, not starting the game a minute in because its easier.
I am an idiot.
I have never been bothered by vault when resetting.
I am against this but who cares.
Marshmellow the part about “you don’t play that part of the game”; the thing is the first 53 seconds are already played for you. You download a save and a demo which you HAVE to use.
Also it can not realistically be applied to elevators since they don’t have a consistent start. You can never skip the elevator at the same tick everytime. While I get what you are trying to say, it is realistically only applicable to the vault.
Also I have seen other games doing it like A Story About My Uncle. Thing is, in the first level (that they skip with a save) you actually have to move around, so Portal is one of the better examples that could implement such a change.
While I agree that it feels cheap and lazy the majority of people seem to be in favour of this change.
I don’t see the difference between not playing the first minute and having the first minute played for you. Either way you’re still not playing that part of the game, you’re starting from an arbitrary point and adding some time in which is crazy to me
I understand that its not realistically possible, my point was that skipping sections of waiting in the middle of a game and adding the time in there, is no different to skipping a section of waiting at the start of the run and adding that time in, neither run is legitimate in my opinion. The difference is if its at the start people find it easier to justify.
That game has literally 10 runners, and only 5 active within the last 6 months, I hardly think it sets a precedent for other much more active games to do the same thing. Furthermore the runs seem to be 20-30 minutes in almost all categories and they skip a 1min42 wait, which is a much worse situation than 50 second wait in a 15 minute run. I’m sure I could find a bunch of other games that have much worse reset situations and don’t use a save, but I don’t have to since sully already did it for me:
These are much longer runs with much long waits for every reset, yet none of them do this.
It compromises what a speedrun is just because people are too lazy to wait 50 seconds. If being in the vault frustrates you, you can tab out and read forums, chat if you stream, or anything; you don’t have to sit there and watch the timer tick down.
Doing this change I feel would be technically wrong and me in particular, as a potential runner, don’t want to be “technically” right about this matter. I feel like the people who want to be “technically” right should have the upper say, like even if only one person is against it then it shouldn’t be allowed. We as the most influential community on Portal speedrunning should to not value the communitie’s subjective preferences over the validity of the speedrun.
The rules have always been established by the subjective preferences of the community, there is no objectivity in deciding a rule set. The rules for anything are always based on what people think is for the best.
Most of the Portal runners are not even involved with SourceRuns, that’s why we’re doing the same thing on Speedrun.com. The most influential people in the overall community are the ones with the most presence, they spawn runners and give a general sense of the experience to runners and viewers alike (and yes I understand to some degree this is self-aggrandizing because I’m at the top of the list viewership wise as far as portal streams, but I feel my point remains valid nonetheless).
And I disagree with this being a decision that should be have to be made unanimously. People often opt out of doing things like quicksaving, but we don’t ban saving because it is unfair to those who would choose not to do it. If a person would, for whatever reason, rather not use the save, that’s their choice, but if the community consensus is that the save should be allowed, then the minority of people who would rather it not be shouldn’t prevent the change.
And i also already mentioned how the examples given are wrong marshmallow.
This is straight up wrong. Morals (subjective) and logic (objective) come hand-in-hand. For example, it is considered morally wrong to cheat, but the logic behind that moral is that you either have a balanced playing field or you don’t compete at all, which means that if you pick the former (subjective), then it is objectively right that you would not cheat.
can we just do a poll? i feel like that would solve a lot of this.
We’ve done polls in the past. The problem is that random stream monsters who don’t play the game like to vote.
True.
It’s not a theory, its a fact.
I’m incredibly washed up, and haven’t played the game in months. I’d like to think my knowledge of the game makes my posts have some sort of value, but if you don’t respect it then I understand since I’m not really part of the current community.
How many times in speedrunning have we said “oh this is a TAS-only trick” or EVEN IN PORTAL, people saying “this can only be done in segmented”. Then after that, people find some magical way of making it consistent and it becomes used in real-time runs. Probably a lot. Getting out of the vault is 100% possible. There’s evidence of it, but it’s not really public bc we wanted to keep it a secret until the OoB segmented run was released. But word got around, so a lot of ppl know about it at this point so idc.
There’s a couple of other reasons, but I don’t really feel like typing it out right now. The main point is above.
I feel like there’s another possibility. We could make another category that’s a run that starts the frame you get the portal gun and ends the frame you beat glados. That would allow for people that want to run the whole game to run the whole game, and for people that want to skip the boring 2 minutes of gameplay to be able to do that. (This may be a lame idea I don’t know)
Yea, most of the ppl here don’t run the better category so I meant getting out while being inbounds.
A lot harder/random and none has done it yet. (afaik)
This proposed save would only technically be usable for inbounds, because it is totally feasible to skip the vault entirely oob. if someone decided they didn’t want to do vault skip an an oob run and they knew how, they would be stupid, but it’s their choice and they could choose to use the save. As long as the first 53 seconds before the save are tacked on to the end run time, the community (myself included) would be totally fine with it, essentially. Except the stream monsters who don’t play the game that Icy mentioned. That’s just my opinion, I can’t speak for the community, but it’s really only logical to allow the save as long as the time before the save is tacked on because the end time comes out exactly the same as it would have had you simply stood in the relaxation vault.