Also, I know I’m not directly involved with this, but I’d like to add that the run isn’t on easy because the runners have no skill. DWaHMoV was done on hard, as was HL21, as is Ep2DQ, but it was decided that this run should be done on easy because it allows more damage boosts, which happens to make the run faster. It’s a decision purely made for the sake of speed.
The difficulty in segmented HL2 is kind of deceptive because easy is actually harder than hard. This is because you rarely want to damage boost on hard because it deals so much damage, but on easy you can damage boost everywhere. This opens up a huge amount of possibilities in routing and you have to plan ahead a lot more, when you’re figuring out the optimal route you have to know exactly how much health you’ll lose and how much time each damage boost saves.
That’s also true. Hadn’t thought about that much to be honest 
I sort of got that, but I figured you must have used it at least once in the first two maps to account for 20 segments to Trainstation_02, which means it doesn’t require THAT many segments to pull off. Also, where’s the skill in this trick? This trick cannot be described as difficult since it is itself a segment. It is coming off like a use-anywhere noclip that also doubles as a save point. The saving and loading is not being shown, which is disingenuous because the time to save and load is actually PART of the “trick” which takes you out of the map in the first place. It loses style points because it removes you from the map and turns the entire game into a boring waltz through out of bounds. It seems to be that there is nothing redeemable or excusable about this trick, and to me, it really shouldn’t even qualify as legal. If the entire run is reminiscent of that prison sample, I’m not even interested in seeing the final result. Don’t take this personally, the trick itself is just very lame and outside the bounds of what is actually possible in the game itself.
I get that the game being on Easy allows for more damage boosts, but the whole idea behind the Done Quick games were that they were always run on the most difficult setting. It adds to the challenge; damage boosts are in themselves not difficult. The hardest part about them is keeping your jump after the boost, and with AHK that is a non-issue. I suppose running on Hard also becomes a non-issue with so many segments and running around out of bounds all game, but that’s besides the point.
And Fnzzy, segmenting runs by level in a level-based game is not something that HL2dQ invented, it was the standard for level based games and was broken as little as possible to try and keep up that standard. In Quake, and many other level based games, it would actually show you the time it took you to complete the level and you could compare that to the times posted by others. This is where it came from, and it is nice because it maintains some of the challenge presented by a SS while still allowing for more optimization by having smaller periods to run in. We didn’t make it up, and while HL2 is a little dicier than Quake due to the long dialogue sequences and random physics, the closer it is to this already existing standard, the more “pure” it is. Also, the more difficult it is to repeat.
I feel like there are enough actual glitches and room for creativity and skill in the original HL2 that you could save a significant amount of time without the save/load noclip. I know from a few clips you’ve already found a number of cool ones, and will probably find more. These are infinitely more interesting. Whether you can pull them off in a comparable number of segments is another matter altogether though… [challenge dropped]. THIS is what I was interested in seeing, and what I think the majority of other speedrun watchers would want to see also.
I think you’re just coming to terms with the fact that HL2 is a horrendously broken game running on a poorly designed, extremely buggy engine. It’s not the runners’ fault that the routes are completely stupid and look like obvious cheating. But that happens to be the fastest way to get through the game.
Plus, it’s actually pretty cool to watch. You may disagree, but apparently nobody else here does. :
I would just like to point out that most of the oob stuff is mostly done to skip cutscenes, I don’t know about you but going out of bounds is infinitely more interesting to watch imo than several minutes of watching books bashed into heads.
And it isn’t just a “use-anywhere noclip”, finding ways to clip with has been a big issue when routing. It wasn’t all found in a day.
In that clip, he went up to a generic wall and Oobed through it instantly. The fact that it’s a result of having to reload the game does not qualify it as a physics or in-game glitch. How does it look cool? It looks exactly the same if you were to simply open up the console, type “noclip”, and fly through. And how am I “coming to terms” with the fact that HL2 is a broken game when I am one of the ones who pioneered it?
I didn’t mean that in a rude way. But new stuff gets found all the time. Look at… I don’t know… Ocarina of Time! :o It took years for people to discover how broken that game is. Of course you found a lot of the early stuff in HL2, and now much later, other people are finding more stuff. Before the game was pretty broken; now it’s a horrific mess containing almost innumerable game breaking bugs ;D
not really, we save a good 20 minutes from save loading alone.
save loading was the reason this run really even exists, I saw rama’s 06 manhack clip and made the post about a rerun, soon after TONS of save load glitches were found.
you have to understand that save loading is a huge aspect in this run, without it it would just be a slightly improved run of hl2dq, and we are aiming higher then that.
That’s not a generic wall though.
I get stuck in that wall because of a mapping error where the wall is moved a bit further down the corridor from one map to the next. I get to the wall before the map change by using a triggerdelay (which was used a lot in hl21 but i suppose it’s a “dirty” trick as well)
well actually that is a dirty trick but it shouldn’t work so it’s okay I guess
If the game has been broken so much since I last left it, then try and find a way around the dialogue using the actual game physics to do it. SM64 does it. Ocarina of Time mostly does it (the biggest skip, the end of game warp, is actually exploiting the programming used to handle a very in-game feature, boss warps). We found a way to do it through a number of dialogue sequences, such as airboat clips and clips involving warped physics (objects stuck inside of other objects, etc). Even when OoT uses a save/load, it’s just to get to another part of the map faster than walking. A part of the map which was already accessible…
Maximus, I feel like you’re not recognizing the difference between “fast” and “entertaining”. Fast is objective, and is what speedrunners strive for. Entertaining is subjective, and unfortunately your view of “entertaining” doesn’t seem to overlap with that of the runners of this project. If you would like to do a run without save abuse, I’m sure SourceRuns would be more than willing to publish your finished project if it is impressive and polished enough.
Fast is objective, the method used to achieve fast is very much subjective. Imagine if a glitch was discovered in the New Game process, where if you selected it fast enough with AHK it would automatically take you to the last level. Acceptable? I don’t think so, but some might argue otherwise. The methods you use to break the game should matter. I am not impressed with this discovery, and if so many people were so opposed to flying in HL2dQ, I can’t imagine many being happy seeing a no-clip copy being repeatedly used in this one, either.
You’re right. We should be consistent and use save deletion too.
dont hurt me guys
(I actually do find it funny that the things people are okay with or aren’t are completely arbitrary sometimes, though I guess it does all just come down to entertainment as z1m said.)
While hypotheticals aren’t useful, if it could be done with human inputs then that would likely become a new category, yes. Similarly, save deletion strats are, indeed, a separate category. Implying that there’s only one way to run the game, and implying that it’s your way, is idiotic.
Again, what z1m said.
Oh, and by the way, look at what I just found:
whoops.
i dont know why that font tag is there it isn’t there when i edit it fix forum pls
Okay guys. I’m done. Have fun.
http://z7.invisionfree.com/HL2DQ_Temp_Forum/index.php?showtopic=357
save deletion does not work in OE.
Margen said he did it in OE, it’s probably dependent on the version.