Half-Life speedrun w/o major skips (planning)


#1

I thought the idea of a speedrun like this was pretty cool, so, why not?
A segmented team run of Half-Life that doesn’t use any major skips sounds like fun.

While the term no major skips isn’t completely clear, I am proposing these rules for the run.

[ul][li]Do not use any NPC Abuse skips[/li]
[li]No button pressing through walls[/li]
[li]Do not use any Triggerdelays, obviously[/li]
[li]Do not go Out of Bounds (usually parts with water, aka skyboxes). This might eliminate Snark Climbing trick, too.[/li]
[li]Complete main objectives of the map (c2a5 dam stuff for example)[/li]
[li]Possible use of Damage Boosting and Collision Boosting to skip minor parts of the level.[/li][/ul]
This means that we can’t skip the freezer part of Office Complex and have to go through entire We’ve Got Hostiles and Power Up chapters (without boosting somewhere in the first map).

However, there are still a lot of details which we would need to think through before actually starting the speedrun. If you have any suggestions to these rules, make a post so we can possibly apply them.

Keep in mind that this thread is used ONLY for planning right now. It might take quite some time until (and IF) a run actually starts.

[hr]

Here goes a list of things we need to settle:

Blast Pit

[ul][li]Going to room with tentacles before activating both generators (using the room as a passage to another bridge/hallway).[/li][/ul]
On A Rail

[ul][li]Taking the tram[/li][/ul]
Surface Tension

[ul][li]Fighting the helicopter (and tanks throughout the chapter)[/li]
[li]Entering the map with tentacles (I’m not sure what purpose that map serves)[/li]
[li]Boosting over the cliffside with gauss and later jumping on faulty brushes to get to the other side of the cliff. (See c2a5a Alternate Inbounds Route)[/li]
[li]Using Infinite Health Door[/li]
[li]Jumping over the little brush in the vent with Snarks (c2a5f) instead of waiting for the vent to break down[/li][/ul]

Interlopter

[ul][li]Using Damage Boosting in most of the maps instead of using the elevators or other stuff that maps provide[/li][/ul]

Fill this to help us define a certain skip in the game major or minor

That’s all the additional stuff I could think of which needs to be settled. The rules at the beginning of the post should take care of the rest of the stuff.


#2

In my opinion, fighting helicopters and tanks should not be necessary, as some players probably ignored them on their first playthroughs. On the other hand, blast pit intended route is a given I think. I would suggest using the question “would a first time player use this route” and most stuff would be answered. The infinite health is not a skip in itself, just like a grenade boost for the sole purpose of gaining velocity. I would allow both. I think of it like going through the game for the first time with incredible skill and knowledge of mechanics while “discovering” the maps for the first time


#3

I’m thinking it’s probably better to take entertainment value over sticking to the rules of the route when such conflicts arise. For example the test chamber escape (a fairly major skip), bunnyhopping through OAR instead of taking the tram etc.

Also taking the tram in OAR seems counter-intuitive for a run that allows bhopping.

I don’t think using the health door is an issue as the glitch isn’t a skip in and of itself, if you use Barney.


#4

I agree that talking the tram in OAR is unecessary, as many people (including me) ditched it pretty quickly on their first playthrough. On the other hand, it should obviously be used to break the concrete at the end of power up ^^


#5

I may just be misreading this, but are you suggesting that the route would escape the test chamber? I would have to disagree with that if that’s the case.

What would you guys think about something like this (http://youtu.be/YchZHkkHsn4?t=32m57s)? I’m pretty sure this is what makes the helicopter on that map not spawn, but it could be argued that a first time player may attempt to jump down instead of playing it safe. What about the ‘seam-walk’ later on in that same outside area? Would that be allowed (I see you already mentioned that)? I know these are fairly small points, but defining “intended route” or what a “major skip” is can get really tricky for a lot of games. Just some things to consider.


#6

“Possible use of Damage Boosting and Collision Boosting to skip minor parts of the level.”

This is probably going to give you the most grief. I would either make use of as many “minor” skips as possible, or just try and do the intended route 100%. (Or the third option is to pick and choose at each potential skip based on how cool it looks to the viewer?)

For example, in the refrigerator room in office complex, you can do a grenade jump to get into the vent which is certainly faster than activating the moving platform and climbing through all the vents - I think even when taking the health loss into account it would be faster. (http://youtu.be/kYSgLxSuq8Q?t=1m38s) So do you do that minor skip, or do you class activating the moving platform as a ‘map objective’ which therefore you are meant to do?

But if you constitute that as a map objective, do you call activating the pistons in apprehension as a map objective? They’re usually skipped via an object boost. Is that legal? I think most first time players would jump that puzzle as intended (though it can be skipped another way which first time players could use: http://youtu.be/hNOdu8SyiEE?t=18m20s)

If you use the “would a first-time player use this route” and apply to very specific areas, you get even more annoying problems. In Unforeseen Consequences, in the part where the bullsquid teleports in and smashes the bridge above a bottomless pit, a first time player would HAVE to run along the pipes around the edge, while speed runners just use the speed they’ve gained to jump the pit.

I’m sort of conflicted. I feel that having broad rules, allowing all minor skips, would be easier to have consistent and (obviously) be faster. However, it takes away from the gimmick of the speed run, and I think could make it less enjoyable as the run would be less unique.


#7

Yes, that’s what I’m suggesting. My reasoning is that most of what it skips is a cutscene.


#8

I know, the rules for this run is a very elastic notion, but here are my thoughts about first 9 levels

Anamalous materials:

  1. c1a0e - no trigger skip, no alien slave skip, no Rofi style skip (dont know exact name)
    Unforseen Qonsequenses:
  2. c1a1c - no bridge skip (c1a1d route should be used instead). NOT using changelevel trigger OUTSIDE the lift.
    Office complex
  3. c1a2 - no scientist door skip, no electricity skip.
  4. c1a2a - celing ladder with shotgun and turret could be used
  5. c1a2b - no Barney door skip, no grenade boost up to the vent (fridge room)
    We ve got hostiles
  6. c1a3 - no scientist skip, no grenade boost over the fence (Yalter TAS)
  7. c1a3a - no barnacle bridge skip
    Blast Pit
  8. c1a4 - train could be skiped (bhop till the end)
  9. c1a4k - jumping on yellow pipes to the elevator instead of jumping over the green floor (hope you undestood, what i mean)
  10. c1a4b - no any grenade boost skips
  11. c1a4i - the button cannot be used trough the wall.
  12. c1a4g - watter trigger boost cannot be used
    Power up
  13. Done by Quad allready. BUT greande boost should be replaced by freechips method.
    On the Rail
  14. Train should be taken and we need to bring it till the end, or till the other train. (as fast, as possible ofc) This assigment will make this level kinda unique… Probably.
  15. c2a2h - button cannot be pressed trou the wall.
    Apprehension
  16. c2a3a - we cant jump over the watter or use a barnacle skip.
  17. c2a3b - we cant bhop throu the fence hole (Spiderwaffle style). We need to swim under water and then activate press room and use 3 presses as jumping platforms
  18. c2a3c - alien slave skip cannot be used
  19. c2a3d - classic ARgrenade boost cannot be used. Health station cannot be used after ambushing
  20. c2a3e - press trigger cannot be skiped
    Residue proccesing
  21. c2a4b - water boost cannot be used. In press room (magnum and bullsquid) presses should be deactivated to proceed.

Correct me, if i forgot something. Or maybe some of these “rules” looks like a bullshit. But thats how i see first 9 levels.
Now its time to sleep, ima bit tired. If its needed, i will add tommorow tips for the rest of levels.

Here are also some additions:

  1. No ammo duplicate glitch
  2. No fastfire trick
  3. No object boosting
  4. No selfgauss
  5. No grenade skips, but they still could be used as boosting methods, just to gain speed.
  6. I dont see a point of fighting tanks and helis - its not a 100% speedrun.
  7. I dont see a point of entering a bonus areas, like a Tentacles area in Sur. Tension. Its still a speedrun, not “lets play” or walktrough
  8. I think we should use an original route for this cliff map (Sur. Tension), because all known tricks (droogie SS, Spiderwaffle Segmented, coolkid SS, quadrazid ss) i consider as a huge skips for a “Speedrun w/o major skips”.
  9. Health door bug isnt a skip by itself (because in my version of the run the greande boost skips cannot be used, only as acceleration method), but the Barney should be used, obviously.
  10. I think for the perfect Interlooper route we should look at Rofi crowbar run. That how i see the Interlooper run for “Speedrun w/o major skips”

#9

I think I generally agree with what you have written, but some comments:

On one hand, sitting with the train through the whole level would be boring as hell to watch. On the other hand, it would force you to do all the ‘side missions’ that involve lifting up barriers to continue. It could lead to a more interesting/unique run, so I’m not sure. Maybe see how it goes?

[QUOTE]
4) c2a3d - classic ARgrenade boost cannot be used. Health station cannot be used after ambushing[/QUOTE]
I have no idea why you’ve discounted the health station…

[QUOTE]Residue proccesing

  1. c2a4b - water boost cannot be used. In press room (magnum and bullsquid) presses should be deactivated to proceed.[/QUOTE]
    Are you talking about the water boosts like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JaDHTKQJcc
    Again, I’m not sure why you would discount that, as it still follows the intended route.

[QUOTE]1) No ammo duplicate glitch
2) No fastfire trick[/QUOTE]
These don’t really have anything to do with using the intended route. But it would keep the number of segments down if that seems appealing?

That seems like a fairly decent idea. Though personally, I have no issue with just gauss boosting across a few of the jumping puzzles.


#10

Even so, I don’t think that’s in the spirit of a “no major skips” run. On a sidenote, not sure if this would be fast at all but I know you can push the guard that revives the scientist shortly after the resonance cascade into the exploding piece of lab equipment to kill him, then take his gun and shoot the scientist on the floor above you to make the door instantly open. I don’t know how long this would take like I said so I don’t know if it’s faster but if the test chamber is not escaped, that would be a cool thing to see.


#11

Why not just make another 100% run? All “WE NEED TO DO THIS” will be gone.


#12

Sounds reasonable, because i dont see way to determine unbreakable and undeniable rules for “Speedrun w/o major skips”, so anyone will have no doubts about em. With 100% it is much easier. But the problem is, that 100% speedrun is allready done by Superfrizzio. Still, there is a lot of space for immprovements and im pretty sure 100% speedrun could be done in around 1 hour


#13

As cool as that is I believe it’s quite a bit slower.


#14

Good point. Personally I would love to Bunnyhop throughout On A Rail. It doesn’t skip any levels (as far as I know), only the tram itself, I don’t know if thats a major skip or not ???
I guess the best way to find out is to see what other people think by keeping track of the poll I’ve made. So far 0 people agree with taking the tram.

I wouldn’t call these skips major, so they could be used in a run.
I guess the main-map-obejcitve rule needs some additional discussion to make it more clear, since I’m not entirely sure myself.

Most of these follow the rules I’ve proposed for the run, I agree with most of them, but I also have some things to point out.

I guess the rule “Complete all maps” should be redefined to “Complete all sub-levels that lead to a certain objective in the first map”, because there are a few optional maps without a real purpose throughout the game, so we can just skip them.

Not a major skip.

Not a major skip, but you can just push a box there and jump on it instead without losing much time.

That’s one example of “main map objective”, I guess.

This jump is not a major skip too. I think Health recharger should be allowed since it does not skip anything either.

Not a major skip too.

All of these should be allowed too, since this speedrun would not be entirely skipless and glitchless.

**I guess what we need is a list of all possible skips and tricks in maps and decide whether it’s a major skip or not. I will do another poll using Google Forms that lists all of these and other stuff.
**

I wanted to do a 9mmhandgun-only speedrun around 2 years ago together with Pineapple and I was planning to use this trick. Unfortunately, waiting for the guard to be revived and then killing him takes too much time already.
Shooting Eli would be a really cool thing to do though, but yet again, we would have to decide if that’s a major skip or not ;D

A 100% speedrun is a completely different thing. It wouldn’t be fair comparing it to a “no major skips run”. Sure, the rules for this run are really unclear, but that’s why I’ve made this topic in the first place.


#15

Part of me wants to say ‘anywhere in Freeman’s Mind where noclip is not used’ is legal

I imagine there’s a few 1st timers who got lost in the OAR maze, and went ‘fuck it. I’m walking’


#16

NEW POLL


#17

I think a run like this would be more interesting combined with no major glitches.

If I had to choose between 100% and w/o major skips, I’d say 100%. If I could have both, Lovely.


#18

I’d like to see another 100% run too C:


#19

By the way, everyone is welcome to fill this form. We need as many opinions as we can get. Just take your time and choose the answers responsibly.


#20

Alright, we’ve got 13 form submissions. (at the time of writing

Results

In General, we should skip elevator rides and use the Infinite Health Door. Button pressing through wall is banned.

According to the stats, the skips below were identified as MAJOR skips (if I didnt misread anything), or in other words - skips that shouldn’t be used in such run.
We are also allowed to skip the tram in On A Rail.

Unforseen Consequences
[c1a0e-c1a0c] Using alien slave/rotors to get out of the test chamber and spawn in the control room at the next map.
[c1a1c] Jumping over the broken bridge over the sewer

Office Complex
[c1a2b] Using NPC abuse with Barney or a Zombie to skip the sub-levels (freezer maps).

We’ve Got Hostiles
[c1a3] Using NPC Abuse to skip We’ve Got Hostiles sub-levels
[c1a3] Using a grenade to boost yourself into a vent to skip the rest of the sub-levels

Blast Pit
[c1a4b] Skipping the tentacle room and jumping/boosting to a certain hallway that leads to a generator

Power Up
[c2a1] Jumping/climbing over the blockade and skipping the rest of the sub-levels
[c2a1] Jumping over the gate that leads to the control room and enabling electricity there without going through the sublevels.

On A Rail
[c2a2a] Doing a Damage Boost or tripmine climb to get onto the bridge and skip a part of the map
[c2a2h] Activating the rocket from the outside
[c2a3] Exiting the tram early to land on the other side of the wall than normally (or getting there by damage boosting or anything like that)
[c2a3a] Skipping the crossbow by jumping on the broken catwalk
[c2a3a] Using a Barnacle to climb up the catwalk instead of opening the gate underwater and taking the stairs
[c2a3c] Using an Alien Slave to unlock the door

Questionable Ethics
[c2a4e] Opening up the room with scientists by pressing a button through a wall instead of activating the lasers and making a hole in the wall

Surface Tension
[c2a5] Jumping straight down instead of releasing the water
[c2a5a] Getting on top of the map and walking to the exit pipe
[c2a5a] Boosting over a half of the map and later jumping on misplaced brushes.
[c2a5b] Boosting over the gate instead of using a button to open it
[c2a5c] Jumping over the fence on the left or using Snark Climbing to get on top of the building
[c2a5d] Skipping the tripmine hell puzzle by climbing over the invisible brush
[c2a5e] Boosting/Climbing over the building to reach the cannon quickly.
[c2a5f] Skipping most of the map by going to the skybox and later opening the door using the grunt

Lambda Core
[c3a2e] Damage Boosting to the elevator
[c3a2b] Doing a Damage Boost all the way to the top (where you have to flood the water)
[c3a2c] Doing a Damage Boost all the way to the top (the part with a lot of teleportation)
[c3a2d] Using hornets or snarks to teleport to Xen early

Gonarch’s Lair
[c4a2b] Blowing up the ground instead of fighting Gonarch
[c4a1a] Doing a Damage Boost straight to the teleporter instead of using the rising poles.
[Rest of Interlopter] Using Damage Boosts instead of the platforms to ascend/descend/get somewhere

The rest of the stuff is allowed, don’t want to list it since it’ll make the post too long and boring to read.
There are is one skip that remains unclear to me, so I’ll just try to explain it better.

[c3a2d] Scaring Barney to make him open the door to the elevator room early and skipping the Longjump introduction sequence
For some reason, many of you guys marked this as a minor-skip, which means it should be allowed in the run, while every other instance of NPC Abuse is marked as “major skip”. Perhaps the question in the form was unclear.
http://youtu.be/AKIpyz0EjuY?t=28m14s - the skip we’re talking about. Personally I would love to have all NPC Abuses banned, including this one.

That’s all, I guess. Now if we want to make this thing happen, we need to gather a team. Any volunteers?