Mid-run difficulty changing discussion

λ Half-Life
61

I’m a bit late to the discussion. Anyway, I’ve read the thread and here is my input (when I mention rules I mean the rules at speedrun.com):

The current rules are a mess. It’s really hard and requires a lot of time browsing different sites and forums to get starting running HL. I started running HL a few months ago, so I know.

You need a client, a valid version and a 3rd party software to make a valid run. The only command that the rules states is OK to use is “fps_max”, nothing else. I didn’t even know that the use of “wait” was allowed. The rules disallows scripts, but scripts such as “bxt_timer_reset; map c1a0; bxt_timer_start” are “sort of” OK.

The client and version is what it is, not much to do about. What can be done is to clear it up a bit, to make it easier for beginners to understand the difference between clients and versions.

The 3rd party software (BXT) is OK I guess. But what happens when YaLTeR decides to stop developing it? Sure, you could just use the current version that works… but let’s say that YaLTeR already stopped developing it and the current version didn’t work with Windows 10. That would imply that you need an “old” OS to be able to submit valid HL runs. Another thing to note about BXT is that it does give an unfair advantage. I use the speedometer when running to make sure that I have enough speed to make certain jumps. That’s not possible without BXT (unless you have played enough to just “know” that you have enough speed). A version of BXT that only has an IGT - and nothing else - might be an idea?

The rules doesn’t say much about which commands are OK to use. It does only, as stated above, state that the use of “fps_max” is allowed. Nothing else. What’s needed is a detailed list of **all **commands and whether the use of them is allowed or disallowed and an explaination of the decision. It would require a great deal of effort from the community though.

So, what about “skill”? One of the reasons you want to allow is it make it easier for beginners to start running HL. What I think needs higher priority is all the things above. Put an effort into making the current rules clearer and easier to understand - then we can start discussing changing the rules.

With all that said, I’m going to vote blank.

62

I can assure you that when I first started getting into HL running (before we even had leaderboards), the rules were *much *messier than they are now. In fact, there basically were no rules other than what was agreed on by word of mouth, not to mention that modifying the game fundamentally was allowed which created a giant swamp of other problems.

I’m not trying to say that there’s nothing wrong because quite clearly there is still a lot of work to be done, but for me it becomes pretty frustrating when people are constantly complaining about how hard it is to get into HL running and how much of a mess it is as if nothing is being done about it when there are already discussions like these going on, as well as contributions such as GoldSrc Package, BXT, a whole new Wiki, an IRC channel, the leaderboards themselves etc that have been created and are still being worked on to help improve the situation. This stuff doesn’t just happen overnight, it’s an ongoing project that requires a lot of time and effort to eventually complete. This certainly isn’t the first time such issues have been mentioned and this mid-run difficulty changing discussion is just one part of the process.

Half-Life is a very sophisticated game when it comes to speedrunning compared to most other games, so establishing rules and making it easy to get into is somewhat difficult to say the least.

All of which are now included in an easy to download & install all-in-one package.

The rules I wrote for the leaderboards are only temporary until we establish a proper ruleset on the new Wiki, which as I said above is going to take a good amount of time to create and finalize. Most likely when the ruleset is finished we’ll just add a link to it on the leaderboards.

Also, the fact that a lot of people aren’t willing to regularly discuss rules and other related issues without asking them to because they seem to put it off as “community drama” instead of taking it seriously makes it pretty difficult to come to a conclusion and accurately represent the community. Many people I’ve contacted before are often frustrated with the amount of changes, refuse to post in the thread, some even trying to avoid talking about it.

With that being said, I think it’d be better to discuss and conclude everything first and then implement it instead of implementing rules one-by-one like we’ve done before, because that just puts people off when their runs become outdated so often. What the HL2 community have done recently is created a survey which asks a number of questions regarding certain rules and then a box for inputting any other thoughts; perhaps something like this would be good for the GoldSrc community too once we’ve had more discussion?

Agreed. Recently I’ve been thinking about doing some videos to explain this kind of stuff; I just need to figure out some things like formatting, what to cover, whether to do a live stream or just offline record etc.

What I dislike more about the speedometer is the ability to utilize it in Steam DLL runs so that you always know when you’re about to hit the speedcap. The problem with banning HUD features though is that they’re hard to enforce unless you make everybody submit VoDs, and then that rules out people who don’t stream. I definitely would be open to a version of BXT with only IGT and other non-advantageous features such as bxt_record, but again, without any way to make sure everyone is using this version it seems a bit pointless.

**EDIT:

**

There are 266 commands and 384 cvars in HL. It’s simply not viable to discuss and decide on whether each one of them should be allowed which is one of the reasons why not allowing console-exclusive commands is a possible solution being put forward. As I’ve already mentioned, the only other solution is to create a whitelist/blacklist depending on the ratio of allowed to not allowed.

63

This is not a concern. The bus factor of BXT is actually 2. If YaLTeR stops developing it for whatever reason, I can be the backup. But even if I too get hit by a bus, someone else can take over the project easily, as it is open source.

64

Bumping this so we can have a proper conclusion here. 6 people voted for Skill changing and 17 voted against. So say yay if we can declare it officially disallowed and continue on. If nay, speak out.

If yay, let’s get a list going (not necessarily here) on what needs to be looked at to come to a solid ruleset/categorization for the goldsrc speedruns.

For example, allowed/disallowed commands need to be officially declared, should RTA-exclusive tricks be allowed, should categories be merged difficulty/versoin wise (ie for Half-Life any% you could run any difficulty you want on any version you want) etc.

I just want this kind of stuff a bit more organized so everyone knows what’s up and make stuff easier to come back to.

Edit: Some of this stuff are being brought up here https://forums.sourceruns.org/index.php?topic=2748.0
See reply #20. But I still feel like we need a stickied thread adressing all the problems.

65

I’d say yay, seems people are more in favor of excusing as least console-only commands as possible rather than more. Will talk about it a bit more in the other thread.

66

changing portal funneling is allowed in portal 2 runs which is ridiculous because it’s not a setting and you can’t change it without the console